The Blueprint for Professional Growth with Tag Gilkeson

A lot of people become “builders” by title. Far fewer become builders by transformation. Tag Gilkeson tells the story of how an investment real estate deal with a hoarder house and a last-minute investor bailout forced him into custom home building before he felt ready and how that crash course shaped everything that came next.

We dig into what happens when the market tightens and the work slows down: you either drift or you get deliberate. Tag chose education, earning degrees in drafting and construction management, then turning that skill into a residential design business that eventually grows into a team delivering 100 to 150 homes a year. Along the way, we talk hiring lessons, why scaling without a repeatable process creates chaos, and how confidence can stay humble without turning cocky.

Then we get practical about construction drawings and client experience. We break down why most homeowners cannot read blueprints, why “readable” is not the same as “buildable,” and how virtual reality walkthroughs help clients make educated decisions before they invest serious money. Tag shares jobsite pain you never forget, like plumbing rough-ins missing a kitchen island by 10 feet, and how tighter dimensions and better references can prevent expensive rework, delays, and relationship damage.

We also go bigger than a single project: leadership as service, job costing that changes the trajectory of a construction business, and why being active in builder associations gives smaller builders a voice on real issues like impact fees and code pressure that crush affordability. If you care about custom home building, residential design, construction management, and real-world leadership, subscribe, share this with a builder who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Transcript

Welcome And Show Mission

Speaker 0:01

Welcome to the Building University. I'm your host, Tim Lansford. This podcast is for builders, real estate professionals, and business leaders who understand that the most important thing you'll ever build is yourself. Here we talk about leadership, accountability, decision making, and the mindset required to succeed in the real world of business. No fluff, no theory, just real world leadership. So let's get started.

Meet Tag Gilkeson

Speaker 1:09

With me, I have a special guest in the studio tonight, I guess. Actually, it's sort of tonight, isn't it? Um, Mr. Tag Gilkeson. How are you doing today? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Thank you, sir. Thanks for having me. Well, I mean, I sort of known Tag a year or two. Yeah. And maybe a year or two after that. And I think it's decades or two now. Decades or two now. So so yeah, so I'm excited to have you here. And thanks for uh making the journey over to the studio tonight. So thank you. Thank you. Yeah. All right. So let's talk, you know, a little bit about you. As you know, the the you know, the show here. We talk about a little bit about leadership, we talk about people's journeys. Yeah, we just sort of find out a little bit of if you can go back and talk to your younger self, sort of, you know, one of those things that we do in younger leadership, but we'll get to that. So let's talk about your your journey, right? Yeah. So you have a a strong mix in what I sort of said is real estate, construction, architectural design, education, NHB, designations. Yeah, I happen to be the most designated. I I share that, but yes. Oh, okay. Just checking.

Speaker 2 2:19

So I usually tell people that there isn't anybody else in the country who has more than me. So I do share that with somebody. Yeah. Someone here at the table actually.

Speaker 2:28

So someone's in the cross from me, but we're we're not saying anything on that. So, but uh been very active NHB and all local associations, builder associations across the country for for many years and uh NHB instructor and do a lot of education as well. So yeah. So tell us a little bit about how you, you know, journey, how you got into this, how what what led you to where you're at in the construction and and you know, talk about your sort of your journey. Would you go back and uh uh do anything? I I think about if I would have done something different, and I've got lots of I would have done it different, I might have done it earlier, I might have done different things. So let's talk about your journey first.

The Deal That Changed Everything

Speaker 2 3:12

Yeah, so I got started in this industry really as a realtor. Um, I focused on investment-only real estate, so I didn't really focus on homeowners or owner occupied. I didn't uh take uh you know people around to see houses. What I would do is I would find houses that needed a whole bunch of work. Um I would uh send out my deal of the week. This is how much it costs, this is how much uh you stand to make on it, this is your profit margin, this is what's you're gonna spend, this is what you can retail for it, and this is what you're gonna be able to walk away with it, right? And that would be my deal of the week. Um, I found a house that the investor stood to make over $250,000 on. Um problem was the seller was a hoarder. I don't know if you remember this house. I think you walked you walked through this house with it.

Speaker 3:56

I did walk through this house.

Speaker 2 3:58

I think you walked through this house with me like a dozen times. But I must have walked, I don't know, 10 or 12 investors through that house and no one could really see it. This guy had stuff piled up. You had to go down sideways, down a hallway. Yes. Um, he'd taken down a wall in between two bedrooms and he made it into a photo studio. Uh, I don't know what he was photographing, it was super duper creepy. Um, I finally got an investor under contract, got him all the way up to the closing table, and then he backed out. And I was like, man, I called the lender up and said, Hey, switch everything over to my name and I'll take it down on Monday. So on Friday, I was a realtor, and on Monday, I was a custom home builder. And I had no business being in business as a custom home builder. That was the stupidest thing I'd ever done. Okay. I would go to work, I'd swing a hammer for eight to ten hours uh a day, and then I'd come home and I would Google what to do next. Okay, now the walls are up. Yes. You know, there was no classes back then. There was nothing that that educated us. You know, um, the $250,000 that I stood to make all got flushed down the drain of my stupidity, right? All the mistakes that I that I didn't know, right? I learned on that house. Um I'll go, I usually don't go any into any more depth, but I I will on this one. Uh, but uh the lender was like, hey, you're doing such a great job. Would you like another house? I was like, sure. And sure, why not? So I didn't I did one two streets over. And then uh, you know, I'm getting that one up and running. And uh uh he's like, hey, uh way to go. How about another house? So I was like, yeah, okay, great. And so uh fast forward to 2007, eight, nine, um, you know, you just couldn't man, no one wanted to buy houses, you know, it was during the economy.

Recession Lessons And Going Back To School

Speaker 2 5:50

Um, you know, I thought it was gonna be one of those I thought it was gonna be affecting the houses in the $300 to $500,000 market. I didn't expect it to, you know, affect the $1.5 to $5 million house. You were building a five million dollar house at the time. Yeah, you know, um, that was crazy stupid, you know. Um and I I was really I got taught that if you can't get work, you get an education. So I went back to school. Um, I got my associate's degree in uh drafting design, and then I got my bachelor's degree in construction management. And I thought that I would go to the plan was to go to work uh for Beck Turner Construction, you know, be a site superintendent. Uh I had 10 years of experience, so you know they could still start me out at 100k plus uh with a bachelor's degree. I mean, to me, this was like yeah, and it just didn't work out that way. While I was going to school, people were like, hey, can you can you draw a garage? I know you're going to school for drafting. Can you can you can you do a bathroom? How about kitchens? Can you do a kitchen? And so it just kept going more and more and more. And I just spent more time drawing and drafting. And I did it on my own until from 2009 to 2018. And in 2018, I hired my first guy. Um and I was like, all right, this is gonna be great. I'm gonna have uh I I'm gonna I'm gonna be able to uh go out and uh get more sales, and then you do with the drawings. He's like, Well, I I don't I don't know what I'm doing. I've never drawn before. I'm like, oh yeah, that's right. Uh okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh okay, you watch me and and uh and then you learn and uh I'll go get more sales. And I would go get more sales and I'd bring it back and he'd watch me and I'd go get more sales, and so I was still following the roller coaster where I would go out and get money or get business, and then I had to get it out the door, right? And you didn't have time to put anything in the pipeline. So uh I was like, man, this is just not working, Tim. This is just not working at all. So I'm like, you know what? Let's go get another person. So I did, and so I got Vanessa, and Vanessa's like, uh, I've never really drawn. I got I hired, you know why you know when I hired her? This is hilarious. I hired her because she said uh that she had designed houses. I was like, Yeah, really? Uh tell me about it. She goes, Yeah, I've designed houses in Minecraft. I was like, you know what? That's good enough for me. When can you start? I didn't even know that. That's funny.

Speaker 8:22

Yes, that's great.

Speaker 2 8:24

And so uh I was like, all right, listen, I'm gonna go out more sales. You do the drawing. And she's like, I don't know what I'm doing. I was like, well, you know, talk to my other guy. He he'll he'll teach you. And he's like, I don't know what I'm doing. And so here I am getting more sales. I now have to feed these two people, right? Where I didn't before. Tag's making less money than he ever did, and I'm working harder because I got to get more sales. And uh, you know, it just my only solution was like, man, what is going wrong? This is gotta work. What am I doing? You know what? I'll just get another person. And so that's what I did. And I got another person, and then another person, another person. I had seven people working out of my house. I don't know if you remember that, right? I do. Uh I started uh I started moving furniture from the living room to the curb and then replacing it with workstations. And we had, oh my gosh, uh, three, six, nine. Uh I had probably seven, eight workstations. I probably had 30 TVs in my house, you know, uh attached to the walls everywhere. There was one above the fireplace, you know. Uh it was just crazy, uh, crazy. And in 2020, I got my own office uh and we really uh have been able to do uh a lot of things since

Scaling A Design Firm With VR

Speaker 2 9:39

then. Really, um we're averaging, you know, 100 to 150 houses a year. Our bread and butter is 5,000 to 8,000 square feet. Um we do stuff that people just don't ever do, which is um we really specialize in virtual reality and technology. Tim, I'm telling you, there's nothing like walking through your house before you build it.

Speaker 10:03

Right.

Speaker 2 10:03

Like I look back, you know, you said, hey, what would I do differently? There are so many things that I did stupid on the very first house that I didn't know that was stupid, right? No one tells you that it's stupid. Um, and you have to learn on the job site. Every builder in the world has done this. They're like, crap, I wish I would have figured this out before now because the whole room is off-center because the fireplace is off-center. I gotta I'd have to change a hundred different things to be able to get it re-centered. So um, and so being able to walk through the house gives the homeowners a sense of security and belonging, and they just make them that allows them to give an educated decision on what the house is going to be like, not before they they invest a lot of money, millions of dollars in a house that they've never seen before. It's absolutely crazy. You know, they tell me uh stats say that at least one out of the two couples cannot read a blueprint. Rarely will you have two.

Speaker 11:00

Well, most people can't visualize it. And yeah, and you know that. I mean, I can have wall studs up and um and and and this happens quite a bit, and I'll be like, So where are you gonna put your bed? They're like, My bed, this is the living room, isn't it? I'm like, No, you're standing in your bedroom. What? This thing's massive. And then they walk out and they look around, they're like, My gosh, this is our bedroom. But as soon as the sheet rock goes up, that's when people start to be able to see, and that's why virtual reality it does help tremendously.

Speaker 2 11:26

Even if you've been a builder for decades, right? Um, you're able to fix things on your spec homes that you would not know until you actually go into it. You just you're just able to make an educated decision. I I really don't know why everybody's not doing it. I mean, right. It's just it's just silly.

Speaker 11:43

All right, you've worn a lot of hats, you know, real estate, design build, drafting, teaching, NHB education. What part of your journey thinks do you think that has shaped you the most?

Speaker 2 11:58

You know, um, I am gonna butcher, butcher, butcher this quote. But, you know, they say if you want to you you retain, oh man, like 20% of the things that you hear. Oh yeah, uh, 30, 40% of the stuff that you write down, uh, 40, 50% of the stuff that you participate in, you know, blah, blah, blah, right? But if you really, really, really want to learn a subject, like learn it, you teach it. And and there is no, there's I I cannot tell you how many classes that I've taught through NHB, right? Financial management, uh, job costing, and they have these formulas, and these formulas are not making any sense whatsoever. And as an instructor, I gotta be the guy who can explain it down to a level where you can understand. And the only way I can do that is if I know the information and I know it inside and out. You can't bluff your way through stuff like that.

Speaker 12:58

Right.

Speaker 2 12:58

Yeah, as an instructor, that to me, that's probably the the thing that you you just have to know what you know. Like you you can't bluff that.

Speaker 13:09

Well, it's the thing to be able to be an instructor. You you learn things. I always tell people I learn every class I teach from my students, from something in the prep that you know, in the research I'm trying to do, and it's it's really a it's a learning part of it, and you learn a lot.

Speaker 2 13:24

So people always say, Oh, well, you know, oh, instructing is easy. Oh, you it you make it look like a breeze. And what they don't understand is for every hour that I teach, I'm also spending an hour to prep.

Speaker 13:35

Yeah, oh yeah, every bit.

Speaker 2 13:36

You know, and that no one ever talks about that stuff, right? Or making the seamless transitions between things, you know, all the stuff that goes behind the scenes that nobody or you only pay attention when it goes wrong, right? When it goes smooth, people are like, oh wow, I didn't even recognize that you did that.

Speaker 13:54

Yeah, yeah. Thanks, thanks. Yeah, that's exactly right. So when um when you started in this industry, what did you think success would look like and how has that vision changed today?

Speaker 2 14:09

So when I very first started, um, you know, when I was growing up, people would be like, Oh, what do you want to be when you grow up? That was always the question, hey, what do you want to be when you grow up? And um, I told them that I wanted to be a real estate mogul. That's what I wanted to be. They're like, oh listen, you gotta understand, Tim, that uh I know you know it, but maybe the the your listeners don't, but uh I came from meager beginnings. Um when I was 21, uh I had made more money in a year than my mom and dad did combined that year at 21. Right? So meager, meager being, you know, and so when I tell people, oh, I want to be a real estate mogul, they'd be like, they're laughing at the the you know, the 15-year-old kid who is oh, you want to be an astronaut, you go, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, the president, yeah, sure, you could do that, sir. Um, but they'd be like, Oh, how you plan on doing that? And I was like, Oh, I'm gonna do it with opium. And they're like, uh OPM. OPM. Yeah. Uh other people's money. Other people's money. Yeah. But I just did it to get the uh the adults' reactions, you know, because the last thing I want to hear is a 15-year-old saying that he's he's gonna do it with opium. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. So um yeah. It didn't really work out that way, but um, you know, to me, I feel like real estate is probably one of not one of, it is the best investment that I feel like anybody could really make. Sure. Hard to get into, hard to get into. It's a it's got a high entrance barrier, but once you get in, the sky's the limit. I mean, it's really you just keep trading up. It's baseball cards on a higher level.

Speaker 15:51

Yeah, 100%. And it's it's ever changing and there's lots of angles, you know. There's uh there's not one way that fits where everybody has to do it. So the more creative you can be, then the potential's there. So yeah, agreed. Um another question I have what did the early version of tag misunderstand about this business that the current version of tag understands now?

Ego, Humility, And Real Growth

Speaker 2 16:19

Um tag um I'd have to say it's ego, Tim. You know, when I was younger, I didn't know what I didn't know. It's like your kids now. Right. They they have no way you don't know, you don't even know what you don't know, right? So that was me. I was uh ignorant, not stupid. Stupid and ignorant are two different things. Two different things, right? Uh stupid is when you know it's wrong, you should do it. Ignorant is when you do it and you didn't even know it was wrong. So I was just ignorant to the industry, I was ignorant to all these things, but you know, as I grow older, uh experience allows you to really understand it. And I think that with the ego comes cockiness, it comes uh and the opposite of that would be being humble, you know. So um to me, I feel like the perfect combination. I I feel like confidence can be humble, and confidence doesn't have to be cocky.

Speaker 17:32

Yeah, and and I've watched you grow, you know. Yeah, oh yeah, you know, and you know, through lots of talks and heartaches, and and we've we've I've watched you watched you grow, you know, and and you've grown so much, right? Yeah, and I I can't even tell you, and I I I tell people that because I've known him for many decades and and uh he's he's really matured out because yeah, when we first met Tag, he was he was uh he was a good guy, but he was a character, right?

Speaker 2 18:03

So yeah, I just thought that uh you know the biggest thing is that I just felt like other people in this world were here when I was younger. I want to let me let me exactly right. They blew it back. I understand the the disclosure is that when I was younger, I just felt like other people were there to serve me. Like they were all in this world and the world centered around me, right? Uh now I realize that it's my not only my duty, my job, my you know, my passion, my calling to help others, right? It's just uh it's an entire flip.

Speaker 18:35

So yeah, 100%.

What Makes Plans Buildable

Speaker 18:37

So let's let's talk a little bit about drafting and and design a little bit, because I mean people out here listening might have some future people are doing it. So so let's talk about that. Um, a lot of people see plans as paperwork, but builders know plans can make or break a project. Yeah. What do most people misunderstand about a good construction set of drawings?

Speaker 2 19:00

So for me, um, there's a lot of answers to that, but you gotta understand that there's a difference between giving you dimensions from sheetrock to sheetrock for the homeowner who's really just trying to see if their bed fits or their couch fits or they can put the big 95-inch TV in there, whatever it might be. Uh the difference is that with a builder, a builder needs a set that he can build off of. Not always readable, uh, meaning that there's a ton of information in there. And uh if I'm a uh bystander or an outsider looking at those plans that are technically unreadable but buildable, um, then it's really hard to comprehend what I'm looking at unless you've been doing it for a number of years. So I think that's one of it. Um to me, I think that most people and unless you're building so unless you're building the house of your dreams, i.e., this is the one I'm gonna live in forever. My grandmother would say um the only way I'm leaving this house is feet first. Right. Right. Um unless you're building that house, then um, you know, there's certain measurements that have to be a minimum. Like, like there's no going less than that. And and listen, code minimum is way different than what we have in-house internally in our firm of what minimum is.

Speaker 20:36

Yeah, and maybe you can talk about that. You know, talk about a basic set of plans compared to a truly buildable set of plans. I mean, I built some big houses with two, three sheets of paper. That's so crazy. I have no idea. Yeah, and I've I've done big 12,000 square foot houses with a couple of sheets of paper. Yeah, but you also I've got 40, 50 pages of plans before as well, and that had everything. So it's uh I I I've seen both sides, right?

Speaker 2 21:05

Yeah. Uh to me, I think the 40 pages is overkill for residential, right? Right. I I don't need the architect or myself to tell somebody uh exactly how to put up crown molding. What uh the if if I'm having to teach the builder how to put up crown molding, he is the wrong builder and I am designing for the wrong person. Right. Right? Yeah. Um, I also think on the other end of that spectrum is you know, I I don't know how you build with three sheets of paper. First floor, second floor, and uh elevations.

Speaker 21:36

Cut your teeth. Oh my gosh. I you know the house I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 21:40

There's a lot of flexibility with that. You know, you get there's a wide range of what you're saying every day.

Speaker 21:46

We made a decision and had to move forward. It was crazy.

Speaker 2 21:48

Yeah, I think that uh to me when I started my firm, there were several things that I wanted. I knew that I wasn't the 40-page guy, I also knew that I wasn't the three-page guy. Um I Wanting to change the industry. And that's what I really set out to do. When I was building, I was building for a builder, a custom home builder. It wasn't my firm at the time, uh, my building company at the time, but I was building for a builder, a custom home builder in Lucas area. I don't know if you remember who I'm talking about. Um, and uh they built beautiful houses. I really loved it. And I made mistakes on there, and I'm like, man, why is this happening? Uh on a side note, construction. You you can you can tell me if I'm wrong, but construction is really plagued with, well, that's the way we've always done it.

Speaker 1 22:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:34

It's uh it it that's the way my daddy did it, and that's the way his daddy did it, and that's the way we're gonna do it. Okay, well, that doesn't mean it's right, and it doesn't mean that it there's not a better way to do it. So when I started drawing, I'm like, you know what? I want to give the builder a set of plans that is just absolutely so buildable that it allows him to focus more time on the client than it does building the house. When I was building houses, I used to tell people that I wasn't a custom home builder. I told him that I was a firefighter because that's what I did every day. I put out fire, right? I go to work, put out a fire. It was not even noon. I was putting out other fires. I mean, that's all I did was put out fire day in and day out, right? Uh every builder out there that's listening is gonna say, oh yeah, I definitely, yeah. Um, so like one of the things that I I screwed up on when I was building was is that I just told this story uh today um was that uh uh I the slabs poured, rough in the all the rough ends in there, the rough end plumbing and the rough end uh electric. And the homeowner calls me up and says, Hey, what is this pipe doing in my living room? And I'm like, listen, there's it's a big slab, okay? It's it's not in your living room. It's not, trust me, it's not in your living room. And they're like, no, it's in okay. I'll I'll I'll go over there after lunch, I'll check it out. Sure enough, it was in the living room, right? They had missed the island, Tim. The kitchen island, they missed it by 10 feet. 10 feet. How do you miss the island by 10 feet?

Speaker 24:06

I don't know.

Speaker 2 24:06

And and what I started to realize is that you're relying on someone that may or may not speak English as their first language to add up feet and fractional inches, okay, in 105 degree heat and somehow magically get that right. Like, I I'm really asking for the impossible. The fact that we don't miss more walls is is really amazing. Um, so when I started designing, I was like, you know what? I want to give a longitude and latitude for every plumbing fixture. Like, I want to fix this problem.

Speaker 1 24:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2 24:37

I I want to, and and I'm like, okay, well, okay, how do I give that information to them? And at what time in the schedule do I give it to them? And so what I ended up doing is that I give that dimension off the outside face of concrete or the inside face of form boards so you can have the plumber get within an eighth of an inch of exactly where that plumbing pipe's supposed to be. No more jackhammering of Randy Slab, uh, no more boxing it out. I hated boxing it out, it was like the lazy man's. It's like, come on, man. Like, I don't know where it's at. It's somewhere around in here.

Speaker 25:13

We got a piece of duck going through there. That's why we boxed it out. Yeah, it's like Yeah, there's nothing worse than missing walls. I know when when I was early in my career that that would happen. And oh no, I I have my guys, I have three or four different people go over and take measures and check this and make sure it's done. And I and I know what I heard that they've got drones and stuff now that AI softwares and stuff that you can go over there because I know that they have the the marker machines. You put the little uh Zumba, you know, guy robot and it marks that's called the dusty robot. Yeah, and that's pretty cool. It marks all your walls and where you put everything. And yeah, but if they haven't done it, that's why I said need to be done. A little drone that does the outskirts and makes sure all your pipes are down to there. And yeah, yeah. That would be uh if if you're listening out there, call me and take my idea and run with it and just send me a check. So to me, it was just there's gotta be a better way.

Speaker 2 26:06

Yeah, there's gotta be a better way. Why after this many years? It's not like we just started building houses. Right. We've been building houses for several hundred years, right? So it's not like, and here's the deal, let's be honest. We're not really I mean, yes, the houses have gotten bigger and they've becoming more complicated, but it's really the same house as it was 200 years ago.

Speaker 26:28

It's not that big of a difference, you know.

Speaker 2 26:31

You know, so how are we still missing walls after 200 years? Like, what have we not learned that?

Speaker 26:36

Well, I mean, back in the day, I mean, those guys were just amazing. Amazing. Yeah. I I still set the just if I get up around Boston or something and go look at a house at 1791. I'm like, what in the world?

Speaker 2 26:48

I know.

Speaker 26:49

I hope some of my houses are in 1791. Exactly right. No, yeah, yeah, you know, it's just different, different building styles, right? So yeah. All right. So I know that you picked up a lot of stuff because you did a lot of stuff at the uh the college as far as um adjunct uh professor and all that stuff. Um so what advice would you give a younger person who wants to get into drafting, architectural, residential design, something like that?

Speaker 2 27:14

Yeah, if I could go back and and tell my younger self, you know, I to me, uh I'd built for 10 years, so I didn't really need the degree, right? I got the degree because, all right, let's be honest. I I couldn't find work. So that's the reason why I got the degree. Uh, I needed something to focus my time and put my energy into. But all I really needed was a place that I could learn the program, right? Right. So if I had a new person that let's just say isn't college material, right? But they have an amazing mind and they love architecture, download the program, get the program, and just spend time in it. Spend time in it, spend time in it, spend time in it, spend time in it, spend time in it. I'm gonna tell a fact to your readers and and they're gonna they're either gonna love me or hate me. But the truth is is that a large portion, we'll say higher than 70 but less than 90 uh of architects practicing today in the entire United States have never set us a foot on the job site. That's true. I just don't feel like they like they design it. And listen, they're skilled in that area. Uh I don't I don't want to take anything away from them, and they're skilled in the knowledge, but there is something to be said about building a house with your own two hands and seeing how that stuff goes together and realizing, hey, here's a sequencing. Okay, I need to draw it this way, not that way.

Speaker 28:43

Yeah, it's the same thing like corporate, have the sales guy go sit with the accounting person so you know how to do your expense report. You know how I mean it's it there's common sense things you do and it it helps in the whole process of everything. So yeah, that's awesome. So um let me put a different cap on here.

Lifelong Learning Versus Collecting Letters

Speaker 28:59

Okay. And um and let's talk about some leadership stuff. And you know, I I've heard this before, and I want to get your take on it. You know, what's the different uh what is different about someone who's truly committed to long lifelong learning versus someone who is just collecting certificates? Because I mean we got a lot of we got a lot of alphabet soup after our name, right? Yeah, yeah. And we strove for those certificates in a way, right? I mean, that was our whole goal. We we we took a year out and and traveled, spent a lot of money, and we we we nailed all those in in one year. Yeah, but I mean, ultimately us, because we enjoy the learning side of it, um, it wasn't about that year is about certificates because that was our goal and we were big goal setters, but at the same time, we're lifelong learners. So so I know there's a lot of people that still just collect alphabets after their name, right?

Speaker 2 29:54

Um to me, there comes a point in time in everyone's career. Everyone, listen, if it's not happened in your career, pray that it does. Okay. Uh if you haven't got there yet, then then it's fine. Just wait for it. But there's gonna come a time in your career that I I was always taught that if you reach a certain level of success, you're charged with sending the elevator back down for other people. Right. And I think that when that happens, and I don't know what that that is for everybody or anyone really. I don't I can't tell you that there's I can't wave a magical wand and tell you that that's when it is gonna happen. But when that does happen and you realize that, I think that's what triggers the difference between a lifelong learner uh and versus just collecting uh certificates. When you become a lifelong learner, you realize that you are no longer doing it for yourself. Yes, I'm bettering myself. Yes, I'm getting the education, but I'm only doing it so that I can then share it with others. I I that's the answer, Tim. That's my answer on that. When I collect certificates and designations and uh letters behind my name, credentials, I'm doing it for myself, right? And that year I did. I it was totally selfish, totally selfish. I had ulterior motives, there's no question about it. But something happened along the way.

Speaker 31:17

Yeah, but but uh I also add to that because I mean I sort of set up question, you know, we did it because in Texas we don't have licensing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you set yourself apart that this is my industry, I'm committed to this industry, it gives you something. Yes, we we were we were striving for a goal because we set the goal, but we really were d differentiating ourselves from the next person. And it does help. It does help tremendously. I mean, if you if you hit the website and you look at everybody and all of a sudden there's this, you know, 13 things sticking out, you know, with initials and then the other ones behind it, and then you know, it's it's it's crazy, right?

Speaker 2 31:56

Yeah, in Texas, we're I don't want to say unique. I I know there's other states that are like this, but um, you know, we get storms all the time, hurricanes, um you know, tornadoes, things like that. Uh, but I and again, I don't know if this happens in other uh states, but it seems like we get an influx, especially with the hail, right? Uh of contractors that from out of state and they just you know breeze in, uh, they take a whole lot of people's money, and then they just go on out, right? Um how do I designate myself or how do I segregate myself from that guy? We used to call him Chucks in the truck. Um so how do I how do I segregate him? How does the homeowner know that I'm better versus he's better or not even the better part, but that they're making an educated and informed decision? I also think, and I know this is not where your question was going, but I'm sorry. I also think that uh this is what also ties in to your local board builders association and being a member of your local builders association, which automatically makes you part of the state builders association and the national builders association. So the the the chucks in the truck are not gonna have those. So that automatically segregates me right then and there, but to have additional designations, you know, that that just it allows the homeowner who, as a bulk, uh are not usually informed or educated on that, uh, for them to be able to make an informed decision.

Speaker 33:28

Right. And I think that's important. You know, a lot of people get you know scammed and different things like that. It's important to find the right contractor. Yeah. All right.

Job Costing That Changes Your Business

Speaker 33:37

So let me switch to your teaching cap for a second. Okay. So when you're teaching a class, um, what patterns do you see across the room? Where do professionals tend to struggle the most?

Speaker 2 33:49

As uh a meaning I'm teaching a builder and he's struggling.

Speaker 33:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2 33:54

It's funny because it's all the classes that I love to teach and it's all the classes that you hate to teach. I know, right.

Speaker 34:00

Um we teach exactly opposite, right? I mean, yeah, we we teach them all, right? Yeah, we do them just because we do, but he definitely has he's he's the more of the the detail, the finance, the everything. I'm more the marketing, the sales, the customer experience kind of guy.

Speaker 2 34:16

So if you think about it, right, almost every builder uh starting out is going to be skilled in sales, right? Yeah, they are. They're they're talking to the client, uh, they're the face of the company. You're gonna you're gonna get that experience of sales. Okay. Oftentimes you might even have a new builder that was the tile guy or was the brick guy, and he's now you know transitioning into being builder on his own, right? Uh a lot of trades become builders. They do. Okay. And listen, they are great plumbers. There are they're spectacular plumbers. They may not be great builders, okay, but typically they're also not great business owners. No one teaches you how to be a great business owner. Okay. So for me, the answer to your question was um, you know, I think that as a whole, or in a generalized statement, as a bulk, I think that builders, professionals, remodelers uh struggle with the finance part, you know, uh the job costing, um, you know, the financial management. I teach the the job costing class and I I I love that class because I tell people that I guarantee it. NHB doesn't, but tag does. Tag guarantees you that you take this class and it will alter the trajectory of your entire business. I'll teach you skills there that you've never heard before that you're like, why are we not talking about this? You know? Um one of them, just to really quickly simplify, is that instead of saying, oh, most builders go throughout their life and say, well, I'm gonna do cost plus an X, a percent, right? And they just know that if I keep doing more jobs and I keep charging X percent, then uh I'll make money. Okay, well, they're not taking consideration my G A and O, my general admin and overhead, labor burden, or any of those things. But instead of doing it that way, right, they're like, oh, well, I'm not making the kind of money I want, I'll just do build more houses. That's their answer, right? I'll just build more houses.

Speaker 36:23

Right.

Speaker 2 36:24

Um in the class, I actually teach them to work backwards. I want to make $250,000. How many houses do I have to build at X percentage profit in order to accomplish that goal? And it it literally changes the trajectory of how you do business today.

Speaker 36:42

Yeah, that's great. And then a follow-up on that, do you think leadership and construction is more about technical knowledge, people skills, or decision making?

Speaker 2 36:51

As a generalized, I think it's people skills. Um there's only one place money comes from, and that's other people, right? And so uh you have to have the people skills to deal with your staff, you have to have people skills to deal with your trade contractors, you have to have people skills to be able to uh uh interact, talk, uh to sales, to your clients, uh your material vendors, all those people. So to me, I think that is a pivotal role in a business a builder's uh business.

Speaker 37:21

How are builders about communication as far as

A Client Process That Avoids Change Orders

Speaker 37:24

designing a plan? What would be the process? Do they work with you? Do they have that? Do you just take over their vision? Do they tell you their vision? Or give us an idea how that works.

Speaker 2 37:33

So it's pretty simple. And we've kind of I don't want to say perfected it. I wish I could say that we perfected it. I don't think we have, but um, we usually do an initial uh client meeting, takes about two hours. I'll ask them, I don't know, three, four hundred questions. You know, I'll go through every single room. What I'm really trying to do is if I can't, if me, this is tag talking, if I can't leave that meeting, already have drawn the house in my head, then I've really failed at my job. Okay. I'm really a facilitator more so than anything. I'm doing that initial client meeting and I'm asking them for two hours tons and tons of questions. I'm getting inspiration pictures from them. Uh, I'm uh they're saying, Oh, I want a utility room. Okay, or I want a mud room. Okay, great. What does that mud room look like? And I'll I have a Pinterest board, you know, uh for the company, and you know, we'll go to my you know, company Pinterest board for mud rooms, and boom, I'm like, okay, here's 75 mud rooms. Which one of these do you like? Right? Do you want them with a do you want them with a cabinet face? Do you want them with an open face? Do you want them with hooks? Do you want them with this? And so I'll ask all those questions. And if I've done that job properly, then really it's just about putting that information on paper. That's not the hard part. The hard part's really the initial client meeting, to be honest with you.

Speaker 38:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2 38:53

Yeah. It's extracting the information that the client may or may not know what they love, right? Um, and then really from there, the next step is we go to floor plan. Um, I'm hesitant to tell you about these steps only because it may be at a deficit to other architecture firms. Um, but we really have unlimited changes on the floor plan. Okay. I do that for several reasons. Number one, because number one, I really want you to be in love with your home. If you are not in love with the floor plan at the floor plan stage, guess what? I got a hint for you. You're not going to be in love with it at the elevation stage, and you're not going to be in love with the finalization stage if you're not in love with the floor plan on the floor plan stage. So we go back and forth as many times as you want for floor plan stages. Most of these firms just do, oh, you get three changes and that's it. Yeah. Three changes? How do you how do you imagine that I'm going to do a 10,000, 12,000? Uh my largest one a day is 35,000 square feet. Crazy. How do you imagine that I'm going to get three changes for 35,000 square feet? It's just not possible. So we let them stay in that stage as long as they want. Um, they can make as many changes as they want because we want them to be in love with it. After they're in love with it, we go to the next stage, which is elevations. And we can stay as in elevations as long as they want to. The key is that you can always go forward, but you can't go back. Once you go back, then that's a change order. No one likes change orders. You as a builder don't like change orders. Clients get their feelings hurt. I lose friends over change orders. Let's just be honest, right? So um I want you to be in love with the Willar plan. I want you to be in love with the elevations before we go to the next step because I don't want you to do any kind of change orders.

Speaker 40:39

Yeah. And and that's good. We don't like change orders. It makes builders, if we can just go through and everything's defined out, it makes it easier on us, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. All right. What has

Impact Fees And Having A Voice

Speaker 40:49

this industry given you that you're grateful for?

Speaker 2 40:54

You know, it's given me a platform. Here's the oh man, here's the truth. Here's the truth, Tim. There are so many small mom and pop builders or small business owners that are builders who do not have a voice in this industry. They don't. Um they are getting railroad every single day because of impact fees through the city uh through uh moving from the 2009 code to the 2021 or 2024 code. Um and they are helpless. They they are they're the they feel helpless because there's just nothing that they can do about it. Um me uh being able to be part of the local HBAs and then later the states and the national, I I have a voice, I have a seat at the table, Tim. I am grateful because I have a voice for those who don't have a voice, right? Um there are so many things that are happening in our industry that uh that these things are happening and no one's aware of. Do you know impact fees like in uh uh like impact fees in Dallas are three to four, three thousand bucks, twenty five hundred for your permit, something like that, three thousand for your water, utilities, all that hook, right? Um if I go north, like in Washington, the state, uh somewhere along in there, do you know the impact fees for residential house to get a house is is like $25,000 for impact fees?

Speaker 42:27

There's some in the northern parts of Texas that are getting hit for $30,000, $35,000 in impact fees. It's crazy.

Speaker 2 42:33

You you you uh you escalate that to uh an apartment complex and you're paying $250,000 for impact fees? You know, it's like we all complain, everyone complains. Well, we don't have any affordable housing. Yeah, it's because you guys are doing stupid stuff like this. Right. Who who do you think pays for the impact fees? Do you do you really think that the builder is paying for the impact fee? No, he's attacking it on to the cost of the house. And the homeowner is the one that ends up being hurt the most. So to me, what I'm grateful for is that I have a voice at a seat at the national table that I can discuss items that are happening for the smaller builder that doesn't have a voice. And listen, if you if any of you guys know me out there and you've been to any of these national conferences, um I have a big voice. And a lot of people don't like it, but I say what other people won't say so that we can have discussions about it. Listen, I don't care if they like me. I don't. I I really don't. I don't care that if they agree with me or not. I care that I talk about it so that we have conversations about it. If we're not having conversations about it, then it's gonna continue and and no one's gonna talk about it. Yeah. There's lots of those things that we're just not talking about.

Speaker 44:00

Yeah, there is. There's a lot of things that that need to be talked about. And I think they're starting to become more and more talked about, but that's which is

The Challenge To Work On Yourself

Speaker 44:07

good. All right. So tag final question. Yeah. If someone listening is in construction, real estate, design or the trades. Okay. And they know they have more potential than they're currently using, what would you challenge them to do next?

Speaker 2 44:23

You know, I'm on Pinterest a lot. I really love Pinterest because it's it's really a way that I can it's an outlet for me. It's my social media choice. Um and on there, there it always appears a uh a pen from The Rock. The Rock. Yep. And it says uh don't spend eight hours working nine to five and come home and not work on yourself or your business. You're not it basically goes and says that you're just unmotivated, you know. So I really want to find that pen. But I mean ultimately it's it's one of those things where um you know you're just what would happen if you just took six months of your life and worked your ass off. I mean, really, really like we're not talking about an eight-hour day. We're talking about working 10 to 12 hours. You got it? Did you pull it up?

Speaker 45:41

Yeah, I got it. Yeah, please say it. Um, don't give eight hours to someone else's dream and then come home and neglect your own. You're not always tired. Sometimes you're just unexpired. And then I'll do that. Don't work eight hours for a company, then go home and not work on your own goals. You're not tired, you're unexpired.

Speaker 2 45:59

That's yeah, that's what he says. Yeah. Yeah. To me, that hits me every single time I see it.

Speaker 46:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2 46:04

You're lazy.

Speaker 46:06

Yeah.

Speaker 2 46:06

Let's call it the way it is. You're lazy. Don't work eight hours and then come home and sit and watch TV. That person's not motivated. I I wish, again, you said, hey, what would you tell the younger guy? Uh I watched a lot of TV when I was younger, right? I goofed off when I was younger, right? Goofing off is fun. It doesn't pay the bills. No. But goofing off was fun. But if someone has a drive and a focus and a passion, right? You got to feed that. So don't spend eight hours working uh a full-time job for somebody else, building someone else's dream, and not come home and work on your own stuff.

Speaker 1 46:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2 46:51

Do it on the side. You know, something that I know this is completely off the subject, but something that I do for my employees. This is final thoughts. Make them happen. This is what I do for my employees. So after 90 days, they do the 90-day review and everything else like that. But what I do is I fund their e-trade account. Most of these people have never had an e-trade account. They have no idea what it is. So I teach them. Again, they're working for me on an eight-hour shift. And imagine a boss teaching you how to make money on the side. How many bosses do that? My boss never did that to me. No. I want to teach them that I want them to come to work for me because that person is inspired, right? And I don't want them to come to work for me because they need to pay their bills. That's the wrong reason to get employees, right? Or the wrong reason to even get a job, or the wrong reason to work at a place. Work at a place because you are in love with the place and love what you do, right? Listen, oh my gosh, I got so much stuff that you've triggered one of me. Um uh Zig Ziglar said that uh he would always say that um uh oh man, I know I I just blanked it, but ultimately um work for the experience, right? The money will come.

Speaker 48:20

Yeah.

Speaker 2 48:21

And so for me, find a place that you absolutely love that's gonna give you the most, the absolute most experience, and you don't care what you're getting paid, right? And then you can take, listen, here's the best part is that they can fire you tomorrow, but they can never steal that experience away from you.

Speaker 48:39

You got it. Don't work for money, work for experience. The money will come later.

Speaker 2 48:43

Yep. That was Zigzagler, right? Yep. Yep. And so for me, I teach all of my employees after nine days how to invest in e-trade. I want them making money. I want them. I want them to be make, I want them to make more money than they're making with me. God, that would be a wonderful time.

Speaker 49:00

It would.

Speaker 2 49:00

That that would be amazing for me to because you understand that that money is gonna go multi-generational, meaning that I not only help that person that worked for me, but I could have easily helped their kids or their kids or the grandkids of their kids. You know, so I I basically taught, you know, give a man a fish you feed him for a day, teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. Same thing, right? I'm I want to teach these guys that they can earn money outside of the eight to five, right? If they have a need in their life, oh, I really want to buy a new car. Okay, great. Do it on e-trade. What do you mean? I can't buy a can't buy a new car on e-trade. Why? You start with a little money, you keep working it up, you work it up, you work it up, you work it up, you work it up, you invest slowly, right? And then you you hit big on one item. Look, there's your $5,000 down payment right there. You know, uh, can I tell another story? Yeah, please.

Speaker 50:01

Yeah, yeah. So well, let me let me put a quote in there. I had a quote on the people. Yeah, yeah. It's from Zig. It pulled up. Oh, nice. You don't build a business, you build people. Yeah. And people build the business. Yeah. And that ties into exactly what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 50:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 50:16

Uh now tell your story.

Speaker 2 50:18

Yeah. Uh I lost it. No, I didn't. No, I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. Um so uh, you know, when Donald Trump and Biden were, you know, going for the presidency, and in November came, everyone voted, and no one knew who won, right? Well, before, like, I don't know, four months before, five months before, um I started buying. Well, Biden was like, hey, we're gonna get rid of all the guns. If I become president, uh forget about you can't even gonna be able to spell AR, right? Right. I'm gonna take every one of them. And so I started buying Smith and Wesson stock. Smith and Wesson, Smith and Weston stock. Every dime that I had, more Smith and Wesson stock. I just started eating it up, right? Um every time Biden would say something, Smith and Wesson stock would dump. And I just kept eating it up, gobbling it up, gobbling up, gobbling it up. I probably spent, I don't know, $20,000, maybe $25,000 eating up these, you know, Smith and Wesson. November came. I'm like, okay. You know, it the way I figured is that if Trump wins, then you know, stocks gonna go up. If Biden wins, the stock's gonna go through the roof because you know they're gonna be selling more guns than they've ever sold before. And so uh November ham and no wait is it, what? There's a miscount. What? Wait, there's an entire state that doesn't know how to count to three. Um, so no one knew who won. We didn't even find out until what January, February the following year, right? Which is crazy, by the way. Um, I don't even want to go into that, but um Biden won. And sure enough, Smith and Wesson shot through the roof. Uh, I was buying it like eight, nine dollars a share, and it went to like 17, 18, 19 a share. I'm actually, you know what? I'm looking back on it, I think it would be probably closer to 22, 23 a share. It was just crazy stupid. And so I sold as soon as he got now, as soon as Smith and Wesson shot up. And I, you know, I bought, I went to the Smith and Webb site website, and I first time I've ever been able to do this, Tim, by the way, right? It was amazing. I search all guns, okay, uh, sort from highest to lowest, right? And whatever the first one came up, that's the one I bought. And so Biden basically bought me a I don't know, $7,500 rifle. Like it was crazy, you know. So that's awesome. And yes, I tied up money, right? But most of these people got money in the bank right now that they're tying up, but it's not earning them anything. You know? So to me, I'm a situational investor. You know, I listen to the what's happening and I make bets on what I feel like's gonna happen based in the future. So if I wanted to buy a new car, I just start paying attention and then you can get your down payment that easily. So yeah. Education.

Speaker 53:21

Education, education. Yep.

How To Reach Tag

Speaker 53:23

Well, man, I appreciate it. Thank you for uh coming and hanging out with me this evening. So I appreciate you. Yeah, I hope your listeners enjoyed it. So yeah, no worries. If I wanted to get hold of you, you got a website or anything that could check you out.

Speaker 2 53:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh it's uh designed, past tense, designed by tag, right? We go back in time and change something, I would change the website, right? I thought I was being clever, like ED design, like oh, I've already designed it. Yeah. Designed, ED. So designed by tag.com. Um, and my email is basically the web address, but it's tag at designbytag.com. And I have a really, really easy phone number for you to remember 469-544-1000.

Speaker 54:06

Absolutely. Well, we appreciate it, and uh, we'll have you back. And yeah, we enjoy you coming over there. Thanks, Dan. Thank you.